ALC Optimierung TS-480 SAT

[Delta-Lima61]

Hallo,

wer kann bei einem TS-480 SAT eine ALC Optimierung durchführen ? (idealerweise in NRW).

Eine Anfrage bei einem Fachmann in Bochum brachte leider nicht den gewünschten Erfolg bzw er macht so etwas nicht. Begründung des Fachmanns: "Beim TS-480 SAT kommen 100 W SSB raus. Das Ergebnis bzw die Leistung in SSB würde durch die nachgeschaltete DSP des TS-480 beim Messinstrument nicht korrekt angezeigt".
Merkwürdig ist jedoch, das bei einem anderen Gerät mit DSP die 100 W in SSB angezeigt werden.
Als Messinstrument nutze ich den MFJ 949E mit der Möglichkeit der PEP -Messung.


Uwe

[13sf1508]

Hallo Uwe,

schau mal hier:

http://www.mods.dk/forum.php?action=Vie ... odelId=769

vy 73,
Jochen

[dsommerkamp78]

Ich muss mal nachschauen wie das bei dem 480 läuft,habe diese Problem beim TS-590,TS-870 und TS-50 bereits sehr Erfolgreich Gelöst unterschied wie Tag und Nacht und völlig Verzerrungsfrei das ganze


73

[DD1GG]

Altes Problem. Versuchs mal bei Dathe. Welche Bänder?

[Delta-Lima61]

Hallo Jochen,

vielen Dank für den link, aber ohne Registrierung habe ich keinen Zugriff darauf.

Uwe

[dsommerkamp78]

Altes Problem. Versuchs mal bei Dathe. Welche Bänder?

Was hat das mit den Bändern zu tun..???? Wenn wie es Kenwood und auch Icom Heutzutage machen , die ALC sehr Dezent laufen zu lassen,man geht da auf Nummer sicher bzw..Idiotensicher

Habe das Gefunden
Ist ja keine grosse Sache und Ruckzuck gemacht ...Viel Erfolg


Like many owners of the Kenwood TS 480 I noted the SSB level output appeared very low on SSB compared to CW.

I measured the CW power output on a Bird Watt meter and it was exactly 200 watts as per the specs for a Kenwood TS 480HX 200 watt model.

I then tried SSB and it seemed very low so I looked at the PEP power output level. It's also an issue on the 100 watt version.

The PEP output was only 84 watts or 30 watts RMS. I then searched the net to see what others had found and or have done and found this is a very common issue. Some suggested inserting a resistor to give the PA more output. This risks damaging the output finals and does not fix the problem.

A resistor between L504 and ground will increase the output on CW & SSB but the SSB PEP will still be proportionally below the CW level and you would risk blowing a final on tune up or operating for periods on CW or FM.



It’s important to note that most equipment will not measure PEP power accurately so I did a number of tests to verify the PEP output. I used a 2 tone signal then checked the average power then calculated PEP. I then checked on a spectrum analyzer for power output verse signal width etc. There is a good reason why Kenwood have reduced the PEP power as the final stage develops inter-mod very easy.

I inserted a 10uf electrolytic capacitor (25Volt or greater) between L504 (VSF test point side) and earth. This does not change the 200 watt CW power output but its does increase the SSB PEP output. It can take it over 200 watts PEP but this results in a very dirty and wide signal.

L504 is on the PCB that the two antenna cables terminate on. It's easy to solder the capacitor to L504 and earth without disturbing anything else and easy to remove. The board has the TX-RX relay and ant 1 or ant 2 selection relay at the rear and is on the right topside as per the photo.

Increasing the capacitor size does also increase the PEP output further but it also causes delays on the output display meter and huge inter-mod.

With a 10uf capacitor I now get 200 watts PEP of clean RF output with ease. It will in fact exceed 200 watts PEP if I turn up the processor but the signal becomes dirty. The maximum I would go to is 200 watts PEP as the inter-mod becomes well out of the TS 480 HX spec. After this mod you will need to watch your levels and band width if you use the compressor above 50%. If you keep an eye on the ALC you should be fine. The two tone test now shows 70 watts RMS output on a Bird watt meter and that equals 200 watts PEP as a rough guide. Before the mod the output was less than 30 watts RMS.

Be very careful doing this mod. I take no responsibility for anyone doing this mod as it’s not a factory recommendation nor approved Kenwood mod. The photo and diagram shows the modification I did and its easy to remove.

Regards Gary ZL3SV

[dsommerkamp78]

Altes Problem. Versuchs mal bei Dathe. Welche Bänder?

Was hat das mit den Bändern zu tun..???? Wenn wie es Kenwood und auch Icom Heutzutage machen , die ALC sehr Dezent laufen zu lassen,man geht da auf Nummer sicher bzw..Idiotensicher

Habe das Gefunden
Ist ja keine grosse Sache und Ruckzuck gemacht ...Viel Erfolg


Like many owners of the Kenwood TS 480 I noted the SSB level output appeared very low on SSB compared to CW.

I measured the CW power output on a Bird Watt meter and it was exactly 200 watts as per the specs for a Kenwood TS 480HX 200 watt model.

I then tried SSB and it seemed very low so I looked at the PEP power output level. It's also an issue on the 100 watt version.

The PEP output was only 84 watts or 30 watts RMS. I then searched the net to see what others had found and or have done and found this is a very common issue. Some suggested inserting a resistor to give the PA more output. This risks damaging the output finals and does not fix the problem.

A resistor between L504 and ground will increase the output on CW & SSB but the SSB PEP will still be proportionally below the CW level and you would risk blowing a final on tune up or operating for periods on CW or FM.



It’s important to note that most equipment will not measure PEP power accurately so I did a number of tests to verify the PEP output. I used a 2 tone signal then checked the average power then calculated PEP. I then checked on a spectrum analyzer for power output verse signal width etc. There is a good reason why Kenwood have reduced the PEP power as the final stage develops inter-mod very easy.

I inserted a 10uf electrolytic capacitor (25Volt or greater) between L504 (VSF test point side) and earth. This does not change the 200 watt CW power output but its does increase the SSB PEP output. It can take it over 200 watts PEP but this results in a very dirty and wide signal.

L504 is on the PCB that the two antenna cables terminate on. It's easy to solder the capacitor to L504 and earth without disturbing anything else and easy to remove. The board has the TX-RX relay and ant 1 or ant 2 selection relay at the rear and is on the right topside as per the photo.

Increasing the capacitor size does also increase the PEP output further but it also causes delays on the output display meter and huge inter-mod.

With a 10uf capacitor I now get 200 watts PEP of clean RF output with ease. It will in fact exceed 200 watts PEP if I turn up the processor but the signal becomes dirty. The maximum I would go to is 200 watts PEP as the inter-mod becomes well out of the TS 480 HX spec. After this mod you will need to watch your levels and band width if you use the compressor above 50%. If you keep an eye on the ALC you should be fine. The two tone test now shows 70 watts RMS output on a Bird watt meter and that equals 200 watts PEP as a rough guide. Before the mod the output was less than 30 watts RMS.

Be very careful doing this mod. I take no responsibility for anyone doing this mod as it’s not a factory recommendation nor approved Kenwood mod. The photo and diagram shows the modification I did and its easy to remove.

Regards Gary ZL3SV

Kenwood TS-480 SATe tx power setup.

First of all you have to connect a small copper cable between pin 3 and 6 of the Data 6 pin mini din. This is a solution if you do not have the supplied 6 pin mini din adapter(basically this is Kenwood's adjustment jig). If you have it then shorten up pin 3 and 6 and plug it in the Data port of the Kenwood TS-480.
After finishing with this small preparation you have to switch on the rig pressing MIC and NR keys. You are now to the service menu of the rig. Go to menu 19. This menu is the one that configures the output power of the TS480 SATe only!!!there is a different menu for the HX.
The default value should be around 146, mine was 146 and i had 95 Watts power output in FM(constant carrier). That means that in SSB i could not achieved TX power no more than 85 Watts, even though that i 've made all the appropriate setup to the SSB mic gain of the rig. After some testing i came up with the following:


Menu 19

1) 146 Default Value = 90 Watts approx. CW = 80 Watts SSB
2) 152 = 120 Watts CW = 90 to 100 Watts SSB
3) 156 = 125 Watts CW = 100 to 110 Watts SSB
3) 164 = 150 Watts CW = 125 Watts approx. SSB

Note: These values are on the 20 meter band. That means that in the other bands you might have slightly higher or lower measurements.

All these measurements where took place with a 50 Ohms dummy load placed instead of an antenna. I tested both values 152 and 164 but i ended up using 152 because i do not want to stress my rig to much. Also because the power meter of the 480 does not go over 100 Watts ,if you transmit with the mod over 100 Watts the power meter stays stuck(for as long as you talk)to 100 Watts.
After your selection(to make your selection press the up or down button of the transceiver) you have to press the mic ptt switch once to "save" your new value. Also you will notice that the power meter after that does not go over 50 Watts which is a small problem. To bring it up again and have the correct measurment from the rig power meter you have to change again the value ,lets say to 153, press the ptt switch again ,and go back again to 152 and press the ptt switch one final time(don't ask why you have to do that i have no idea!!!).
Finally you have to turn back to menu number 76 EPROM and press the up button to save your new configuration.
To exit the service menu press the MTR key and thats it!!!



Proceed at your own risk!!!
Advise!!!don't go over 150 Watts of TX power in CW or FM.

73 de SV1JRF

Even if you make all the correct adjustments to increase the TX power of the transceiver you will notice that in the 6 meter band you won't have the desired results. That means that even though TX power in 1.8 Mhz to 28 Mhz, is where you measured it, in 50 Mhz is not the same. So i found out that in Menu 19 using the second option(152)in 6 meters you have only 75 Watts constant carrier. So i ended up rising the value a little bit to 156. This way i have increased the 80 Watts to approx. 90-95 Watts constant carrier, so now i have ,with PROC on, approx 80-85 Watts SSB. Unfortunately you have to compensate this setting because if you try to increase the value of Menu 19 to where the measurement in 50 Mhz will be approx. 100 Watts, then in the HF bands you will have 150 Watts constant carrier or maybe more, which is not recommended!!!
When the 6 Meter Band season ends i will decrease again the value of menu 19 to 152.

Thx agn,
73's

[DD1GG]

Ich muss mal nachschauen wie das bei dem 480 läuft,habe diese Problem beim TS-590,TS-870 und TS-50 bereits sehr Erfolgreich Gelöst unterschied wie Tag und Nacht und völlig Verzerrungsfrei das ganze


73

"Software Update", wa?

[DD1GG]

@ Sommerkamp: So einen Kappes überhaupt zu posten. Ich hoffe, Du bist NICHT lizensiert.

@ Uwe, ich kann Dir aus persönlichen Erfahrungen letzteres NICHT empfehlen. Im hidden Menue zu stricken ist sträflicher Leichtsinnn. Hardwareseitige Mods würde ich ( predige) bei Dathe in Bad Lausick anfragen. Alternativ macht Knauer das.

[dsommerkamp78]

@ Sommerkamp: So einen Kappes überhaupt zu posten. Ich hoffe, Du bist NICHT lizensiert.

@ Uwe, ich kann Dir aus persönlichen Erfahrungen letzteres NICHT empfehlen. Im hidden Menue zu stricken ist sträflicher Leichtsinnn. Hardwareseitige Mods würde ich ( predige) bei Dathe in Bad Lausick anfragen. Alternativ macht Knauer das.

Du hast wohl überhaupt kein Plan von Technik ,Steckdosen--Amateur bei Dir reicht es wohl gerade mal ein Mikrofon anzulöten

Von nix Ahnung aber den Hals aufreissen ,ich bin zumindest in der Lage technische Änderungen selbst durchzuführen und am Messplatzt nach zu justieren Hidden -Menü ist keine Hexerei, und wenn man das Richtig anfasst kann man das ein oder andere noch Optimieren ,das ist sicher nix für Dich Funkfreak an Deine stelle würde ich da auch die Finger von Lassen

In diesem Sinne...73

[dsommerkamp78]

Ich muss mal nachschauen wie das bei dem 480 läuft,habe diese Problem beim TS-590,TS-870 und TS-50 bereits sehr Erfolgreich Gelöst unterschied wie Tag und Nacht und völlig Verzerrungsfrei das ganze


73

"Software Update", wa?

Nee dazu muss man schon an der Hardware arbeiten ,aber nur wenn man weiss was man Tut

[DD1GG]

Wenn Du so misst, wie Du schreibst.... Viel Erfolg.

@Uwe: Vllt. auch mal in den Yahoo Gruppen schauen.

[dsommerkamp78]

Wenn Du so misst, wie Du schreibst.... Viel Erfolg.

Bla.Bla,Bla wenn einem nix mehr Einfälltl kommt das Rechtschreib...Gefasel
Nur lizenzfragen auswendig Lernen reicht nicht ,um auch was von Hf-Technik mit zubekommen


@Uwe: Vllt. auch mal in den Yahoo Gruppen schauen.

[dsommerkamp78]

Wenn Du so misst, wie Du schreibst.... Viel Erfolg.

Bla.Bla,Bla wenn einem nix mehr Einfälltl kommt das Rechtschreib...Gefasel
Nur lizenzfragen auswendig Lernen reicht nicht Funkfreak oder besser Funkkomiker,um auch was von Hf-Technik mit zubekommen

PS. Aber unser Geschreibsel ist ja nicht das Thema hier


@Uwe: Vllt. auch mal in den Yahoo Gruppen schauen.

[DD1GG]

Hört man Dich mal? Rufzeichen? Ruhrgebiet ist ja quasi umme Ecke.